And they wonder why we do it.

As I was going through the pages linking to this one, I came across a pingback from virginworlds linking to a blog featuring someone that seemed to be quite upset about suicide ganks, i chose to reply to this post (incidentally, it’s one of those guys that moderates replies, so expect my reply to disappear shortly after this) to try and explain how it’s hardly certain death when gankers attack.

The original blog was located here, but I will reproduce the exchange here for your pleasure:

THE BLOG ENTRY:

The point to all this is that there are some games that I want to love playing, but just can’t. Sometimes these games are such that I really do enjoy playing them but there is some factor that make me feel about as welcome as  “skin head” at a bar mitzvah.

Eve online is one of those games.

Despite what some of our learned readers and listeners may insist, pvp in Eve Online is not consensual. Far from it in fact. It was not that long ago I wrote an article for Virgin Worlds called “consenting adults and other Eve Online PvP Myths.”  Now don’t mistake my disappointment for disapproval.  In fact where CCP is concerned it is quite the reverse in my opinion – the devs at CCP are (at least as far as game mechanics are concerned) by far one of the best development teams out there.

The big “But” (no not mine) is this: if there is any game out there in the internet global village that is the equivalent of the lawless wild west, Eve Online is it.  There is very little that the devs at CCP consider against the rules.  Isk selling? Sure, as long as the source is CCP.  Players who scam other players out of months or real time hard work? It’s all part of the game. I can put up with all that, but for me the whole “That’s three” was non-consensual pvp.  And now, it seems, the dung is starting to hit the proverbial fan if only in some small way. Here is a quote from one of my regular reads, The Ancient Gaming Noob (see below). You can read the full article here:

“Gangs of suicide gankers in destroyers have been roving the asteroid belts hunting Hulks for sport.  We just can’t seem to get away from suicide gankers in EVE, no matter  what anybody says.  Some people just find it too much fun.” – The Ancient Gaming Noob

And here, (in its most recent incarnation) is the source of the angst of which the Ancient Gaming Noob wrote.

Now for those of you who aren’t “in the know” where Eve Online is concerned, a Hulk is what is called a “Tech 2″ ship.  It involves a great deal of time and money to buy or make or both – millions, upon millions of isk. The hitch is this – although you may have heard that ships can be insured in Eve Online, the truth of the matter is that a Tech 2 ship can only be insured for a tiny small fraction of what it costs, including the fittings (which can’t be insured at all).

Everyone who has ever played Eve Online will tell you, “Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose.” The problem is, you should at least be safe in high sector space.  There should be some part of the game where you can pve without being killed by players who live off the misery of others.

There was a time when CCP sais they would take action on this. Here is a statement from an article over at Massively.com from August 2008 (Thanks Michael for the correction):

”CCP Fear states: ‘We have been looking at suicide ganking and overall security standing issues, and how these features affect the general landscape of EVE. We are not happy with the current ease of suicide ganking and the relative ‘no hassle’ it has become. In many cases, unsuspecting victims have no chance to escape, nor any help from CONCORD. We want to change this.’” – via Massively.

In the end, not much has changed between when CCP Fear made the statement and this day.  Even if they had, those who are determined enough will find a way around said changes.  As a Hulk pilot myself (at least until about a week ago) between corporate war declarations and threat of suicide ganks perhaps I had found my Hulk a virtual prisoners in space dock once too often.

There will always be players like the imbeciles who organize suicide gankings. Why do they do it? Certainly not for the money, as blowing up someone else’s much more expensive ship, knowing you will lose yours to the “in game police” (called concord) mere moments later only costs you money.  There is a line in the recent Batman movie called “The Dark Knight” where Alfred the Butler (in the personage of the great actor Michael Caine) says “Some men just want to see the world burn.”  The sad truth is that if you get enough gamers together in one place there will always be at least a few assholes out to enjoy themselves by ruining the game for other players.

Now it is at this juncture that some of my readers may point out things like “it’s just a game” and that is true.  But the players who live off the misery of others, especially those who find ways to circumvent game mechanics, have a much more far reaching affect than that. Long run, if enough players leave a game, because of it, those same players could find themselves with no one to prey on but themselves. Eve Online doesn’t have much in the way of competition now, but Star Trek Online is just around the corner (Yes I am fully aware that are some players don’t consider it direct competition).

However, that is far from what I hope happens

What I hope happens is that the devs at CCP finally take a bit of a firm hand in things (something they are known for NOT doing) and resolve the situation.  PvP is great and I am a big PvP fan – .just so long as both parties participating in it agree to it – And agreeing to it DOESN’T happen simply by logging on to Eve Online.  However, as Michael points out in the comments to this article, if there is anyone who can “Square that particular Circle” CCP can – I just hope it doesn’t take too long.

See you online,

Julie Whitefeather

MY REPLY:

Very classy, calling people that organize suicide ganks “imbeciles”.

Who is the imbecile here? The people playing outlaws that will go above and beyond the law for any sort of financial gain, or the AFK miner that is not even near his ship when he is attacked?

I understand your bias, but I would point out that EVE is marketed as a dark and dangerous place, furthermore, it’s incredibly easy -not- to get ganked while mining.

I organize hulkageddon, but I ALSO have a hulk pilot myself. Simply by being AT my computer when I mine, and observing the local channel and being ready to turn on my tank and/or warp out I have eluded two suicide ganks myself.

We are agitating against players that believe they should make large amounts of ingame money without actually being at their desk and playing the damned game. “But mining is so boring!” Well, that’s CCP’s fault, not ours.

We have destroyed hulks fitted with incredibly expensive faction tanks that would have easily weathered our attack had they been present at the keyboard; and indeed during the first hulkageddon several -active- players handily avoided death at the gankers’ hands.

As far as I can tell, your understandable bias has coloured your words, but it is a mistake to call people names for an activity they pursue within the allowed game mechanics, if that bothers you so much, then it’s just not the game for you. YOUR opinions are meaningless to what the people running the game allow/disallow.

as CCP put it: HTFU, this is now hello kitty online, this is the dark dog-eat-dog world of EVE, this is why we love it, if you can’ t take that sort of heat, then stay out of the kitchen.

AND NOW THE EMO TEARS:

Here we go gang…time for Julie to sharpen her ruler.

@ Helicity Boson: You are quite correct in that I should not have called “people” who organized the ganks of miners “imbeciles”. I probably should not have inferred you are in imbecile either.

After all, it’s not your fault that it took you this long to respond – we respect the fact that someone with your obvious Neaderthal-like intellect took this long to develop the ability to read. We congratulate you on developing the ability to read and taking a moment to surface to reality long enough to respond nearly two months after your bout of living off the misery of others in a feeble attempt to boost your own sagging ego.

“We have destroyed hulks fitted with incredibly expensive faction tanks…”

Why does this sound suspiciously like Hitler marching in to Poland beaming with pride at the good he has done for the world. What good do you feel you have done the world in getting together a bunch of thugs whose totaled IQ wouldn’t exceed a box of hammers so that they can work off their anger at having to shovel their moms sidewalk and actually having to come up out of the basement when their mom calls time for dinner?

You live in some pathetic fantasy world where you feel the universe rotates around you and you are somehow teaching players a “lesson” when all you are doing is trying to make up for the fact you have an inferiority complex the size of a third world nation.

Finding a way to circumvent game mechanics (for that is all that you have done here) to ruin somebody else’s participation doesn’t do anything other than point how feeble your intellect is, and how Neanderthal-like is your “we be teaching them a lesson boys…get yer ropes, yer hound dogs, and your white hoods…we is gonna have us a hanging” mentality.

Thank you for providing us with the opportunity to personally tell you what a pathetic hunk of anthropomorphic swamp gunk your actions portray you as. Let’s hope you are a much better person in real life – in game you are a waste of skin.

Got anything else to say? I don’t hide behind pseudonyms. Say what you want spell the name right. That’s…

JULIE WHITEFEATHER

MY FINAL REPLY (not approved at this time)

haha oh wow, you are really really upset. You can call me names or attempt to demean my intellect as much as you like, *I* dont get this infuriated over what, when all is said and done, is just a game.

This is not the first time I notice that the so-called carebear breed of player takes it all so damned seriously, while the outlaw parties tend to view things in a more game-like perspective. We lose ships that are much more expensive than hulks with som regularity, and we tend to shrug it off, as we -know- the following truth about EVE online:

-barring a disconnect or game crash, every ship you lose is ALWAYS your OWN fault-

I dont see why you feel the need to agitate so violently over a game, it doesn’t really seem indicative of a balanced and well-rounded adult personality. Suck it up, take a deep breath and keep on trucking. it’s NO BIG DEAL.

Honestly, I’m positive if you look at the deluge of insults you just let slip in a more calm state will agree that was largely out-of-line.

regards,

Helicity

And there we have it, people blame us criminals and pretend we are not right in the head, but when you look at this… well, i guess we know where the really unhinged types hang around huh?

First one to kill julie and bring me her killmail and frozen corpse will get a special prize 😀

Edit: After closing off the comments in a surpeme show of not-acting-your-age we are left with the image of this goddess to entertain us: http://noprisonersnomercy.com/about/

So there you have it, in the eyes of fucked up middle aged women, ganking internet spaceships = killing six million jews.

Fucked up world we live in…